Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Jim Lovell/archive1
- The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
The article was promoted by Ian Rose via FACBot (talk) 26 December 2021 [1].
Jim Lovell[edit]
- Nominator(s): Hawkeye7 (talk) and Balon Greyjoy (talk)
This article is about the second oldest living American astronaut after his Gemini 7 and Apollo 8 crew mate Frank Borman. He also flew the Gemini 12 mission with Buzz Aldrin, who is two years younger. Lovell was part of the Next Nine group of astronauts selected in 1962 that also included Neil Armstrong, and he was Armstrong's backup for the Apollo 11 mission. Today he is probably best known for his unsuccessful final mission, Apollo 13, which was made into the 1995 film Apollo 13, in which he appeared. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:29, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
Comments by Wehwalt[edit]
I've made a number of hands-on edits, mostly minor grammatical and such.
- "Naval aviator" Our article on same says "naval aviator".
- Can more be said about the astronaut selection process Lovell passed? If I recall, Lovell describes it in some detail, including the interview.
- "at Albrook Air Force Station in Panama" I might describe it as being in the Panama Canal Zone.
- Perhaps something more can be said about Lovell's experience on Gemini 7? From what I recall, the flight was so long that in the final days they were uncomfortable and just counting down the time to the return to Earth.
- What role, if any, did Lovell have in NASA's recovery from the Apollo 1 fire?
- Is it worth mentioning that Lovell led the crew that spent two days in April 1968 in a CM in the Gulf of Mexico testing the effects of seawater on the CM?
- Perhaps in the Apollo 13 mission material, a bit more about Lovell as an individual, perhaps mention he echoed Swigert's "Houston, we've had a problem" and his comment that NASA wouldn't be returning to the Moon for a while that got him into slight hot water.
- It's page 323 of the 1998 edition of Chaikin's book. On the chance you have different pagination, it's the episode described as April 16 at 3:21 am Houston time. I think Lovell talks about it in Lost Moon, too. There's brief discussion of it in the Lunar Flight Journal here (search for
"last lunar")--Wehwalt (talk) 21:25, 8 November 2021 (UTC)
Support from Hurricane Noah[edit]
Two of his classmates were Pete Conrad and Wally Schirra, but Lovell graduated first in the class
I think it would be better as "however," instead of "but".He became McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II program manager.
I believe this is missing an article after became.- Add a nonbreaking space to the infobox to keep Apollo 8 from going to two lines. Same thing with United States.
achieved Eagle Scout, the organization's highest level
I think it would be more appropriate to say rank instead of level.Upon his return to shore duty, he was reassigned to provide pilot transition training for the North American FJ-4 Fury, McDonnell F3H Demon and Vought F8U Crusader
Serial comma.
- Should be able to get the rest of the article from Gemini down tomorrow. NoahTalk 02:50, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
- Is there a reason why you are using nautical miles instead of statute miles? Most readers do not understand the unit.
After the flight this was traced to the fact that they had an old type of laminate in the thrust chamber instead of the new type that had been developed to solve this problem.
Comma after flight.By day thirteen a warning light was burning continuously and it was feared that the cells
Comma after thirteen.However tests were carried out in St. Louis that demonstrated that Gemini 7's batteries could sustain it for the remainder of the flight.
Comma after However.Instead Aldrin, who had written his PhD on the rendezvous,
Comma after instead.and aftwerwards it underwent a series of qualification tests
TypoOn Christmas Eve the crew broadcast black-and-white television pictures of the lunar surface back to Earth.
Comma after Eve.In 1999 the Lovell family
Comma after 1999.- Link Duke of York.
- Link to Richard Nixon.
Support from TRM[edit]
- "the 1970 Apollo 13 lunar mission" this could be read as if there's e.g. a 1971 Apollo 13 lunar mission. Maybe "the Apollo 13 lunar mission in 1970".
- Could link Mission control center for "mission control".
- Linked instead to Christopher C. Kraft Jr. Mission Control Center Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:36, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
- Also worth linking night fighter as it's jargon.
- "Class 20. His classmates ... the class" thrice class in quick succession.
- "He became the McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II program manager." rather brief and without temporal context.
- Infobox mentions total duration in space of "29d 19h 03m", where is this referenced?
- Interestingly, his occupation in the infobox is listed as "Test pilot" yet that is not listed in the lead, where it says he's a retired "astronaut, naval aviator, and mechanical engineer".
- "outbreak of the Korean War in 1950. To avoid this prospect..." doesn't flow right, "this prospect" appears to be the outbreak of the Korean War.
- Could link liquid-propellant rocket.
- "while they ... While she" quickly repetitive.
- "NAS Pensacola " can we spell out NAS first time?
- Especially as you subsequently have "at Naval Air Station Patuxent River"...
- "His classmates included Pete Conrad and Wally Schirra.[18] Conrad gave Lovell the nickname "Shaky" could we not reverse the order of Conrad and Schirra in the first sentence and then merge it with the second to avoid these two very short sentences?
- "sets.[20][18]" ref order.
- "time John Young served " are we supposed to know who that is?
- Any need to have (USC) when you never actually use the initialism?
That takes me to "NASA career", more to come. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 15:25, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
- "NASA test pilot Warren J. North reduced" comma after North.
- "finalists.[26][27] The finalists" repetitive.
- "on September 14.[31] He became" merge.
- "announcement, but it was" why "but"?
- "at the Naval Air Station Pensacola in Florida and " overlinked and if you want to introduce it (i.e. "in Florida") suggest you do that on its first mention.
- "for Gemini 4.[43] This was" merge.
- "astronaut Deke Slayton.[43]" overlinked, and do you need to repeat his first name?
- "a United States Air Force (USAF) officer" you've already used USAF before this point.
- "had a zippered hood" is this referenced?
- "the Gemini 6 mission" our article calls it 6A? Indeed you switch to 6A later...
- "the Agena target vehicle that" overlinked.
- "Gemini 7 during the two weeks while Gemini 7 was in orbit.[48] The only change to Gemini 7's " bit "Gemini 7"-centric...
- "eight were medical" what were the other 12?
- "was less exciting." according to?
- Drums Along the Mohawk has a capital A in Along.
That takes me to "Gemini 12", more to come. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 09:38, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
- (Previous) "... potential astronaut candidates..." overlinked.
- "On January 24, 1966, Lovell... " massive sentence, lots of run-ons and repeated phrases.
- " (EVA). EVAs had" repetitive
- "Lovell asked him if he could change the oil too." I assume this is a joke, so it might be worth saying "jokingly" in front of asked.
- "discarded some unneeded items" whaaaaat? He just chucked stuff out into space?
- Correct. Source [2] says: "Aldrin began the second standup EVA which included photography, additional experiments and the jettison of unused equipment." [3] (p. 377) says: "First, he just stood in the hatch, becoming acclimated. Then he cast loose a garbage bag." Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:33, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
- "December 24 (Christmas Eve) " etc not sure why Christmas Eve/Day is relevant. This is about spaceflight, not Christianity.
- It is relevant because of the Apollo 8 Genesis reading Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:33, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
- "Please be informed, there is a Santa Claus."[78]" I mean this is "funny" but who said that Santa lived on the Moon? He's in the north pole, everyone knows that. Or is it an American thing to think he lives/lived on the Moon?
- In American lore, Santa and his reindeer fly around the Moon. eg [4]
- "the right numbers" -> "the correct values".
- "computer keyboard" that's an Easter eggy link to computer, call it by it's piped link.
- Image captions seem a bit hit-and-miss as to the consistency on full stops.
- "prime and backup crews, who trained together" this is very surprising to me. I thought the whole point was to separate the teams in totality. That's not a correct assumption then?
- "We have a problem here" " comma after "here"?
- I would put this seminal conversation into a quote box rather than single-sentence paragraphs in the middle of the prose.
- "becoming CEO in 1975. He became" repetitive.
That takes me to "Awards and decorations", more to come. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 11:50, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
- PS I'll finish up tomorrow, sorry for the delay today. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:33, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
- What makes anecdotes-spatiales.com a high quality RS? It looks like a self-published blogesque site to me.
- "by His Royal Highness the" do we need "His Royal Highness"??
- "1966. It was " merge.
- "in 1969. Lovell accepted" similar. This paragraph reads quite choppily to me, could use smoothing out as it's like reading a list of bullet points in prose form.
- "Lovell was on " featured on? I mean it's pretty certain that Lovell's image appeared on hundreds magazines/newspapers etc, but I guess these two instances were proper features?
- Compare format of ref 11 with ref 116, e.g. linking, location etc, be consistent.
- Ref 34, we don't normally do "double quotes".
- Ref 57 vs 62 format inconsistency.
- Ref 67, what is Features?
- Ref 67 vs 79, NASA format inconsistency.
- Ref 80, you tend to put locations for printed newspapers, but not always. Be consistent.
- Any reason why some URLs are archived and other aren't even though they're live?
- Ref 90, NASA here instead of NASA elsewhere. Check throughout and be consistent.
- Ref 91, you tend to link newspapers, but not consistently, suggest you do so here (and consider location too as this is a non-US work).
- Ref 136, Boy Scouts... was italicised previously.
- Ref 139 no access-/publication date?
- Ref 148 no location information
- Ref 150, TIME is just Time and can be linked.
- I notice that The New York Times has no location information in any refs yet Los Angeles Times does (for instance) so I imagine for consistency all of these should.
- Ref 133 ISBN has no hyphenation while all those in the References section are hyphenated.
That's probably just about it on the first run. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 08:17, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
- Nice work, happy to support the nomination. The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 19:22, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
Harry[edit]
I've read the lead and had a couple of minor quibbles but I'll wait til you've addressed TRM's comments so we're not duplicating each other. Ping me when you're ready for me and I'll get to it as soon as I can. :) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:04, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
- through the efforts of the crew and the Mission Control Center Is this really relevant in the lead of Lovell's biography?
- which included future astronauts Pete Conrad and Wally Schirra Again, doesn't feel like an important detail for the lead
- They had four children: Barbara, James, Susan, and Jeffrey I don't think we need the names of non-notable offspring
- Usually the top graduate was assigned to Flight Test on graduation, but Lovell was assigned to Electronics Test Is that a proper noun? Also, do we know why? Was it his choice?
- and Conrad for refusing to take the second round of invasive medical tests not relevant to Lovell's biography
- During which time future astronaut John Young served under him. relevance to Lovell? And during what time? This is a new sentence.
- Borman rejected suggestions that Lovell and Stafford exchange places on the grounds that it was hazardous and likely to jeopardize the fourteen-day mission objective through loss of oxygen I had to read this several times and I'm still not quite sure what's going on. Why was this Borman's decision? Why was the suggestion made in the first place, and by whom? Switch which places? What was the hazard and how did it jeopardise the mission?
- Borman was the commander, so he was in charge of the mission. Try and imagine what was proposed. We have two Gemini spacecraft, each about the size of a car, moving through space in tandem. We tether them together with a nylon rope. All four astronauts don space suits, and we open the doors of both spacecraft, letting out the cabins' oxygen. Then Lovell makes his way across to Gemini 6A, making sure not to fall off and become orbiting space junk, and boards Gemini 6A. Stafford then does the same, moving to Gemini 7. Borman disconnects Lovell's oxygen hose on Gemini 7, and Lovell reels it in and has Schirra re-attach it on Gemini 6A. The process is then repeated for Stafford. Both spacecraft then close the doors and repressurize the cabin. What could possibly go wrong? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:36, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
- White was laid to rest in the West Point Cemetery, with Lovell serving as a pallbearer the ", with" connector is ungrammatical. Suggest splitting the sentence or, better still, re-casting it to make Lovell the subject.
- HJ Mitchell you've mentioned this in "another place", could you link me to some style guides (even our own one) which suggests this construction is ungrammatical, just for my interest please? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:34, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
- The Rambling Man, the best we have on-wiki that I can find is User:Tony1/Noun plus -ing (Tony cites the Chicago Manual of Style). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:19, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
- HJ Mitchell you've mentioned this in "another place", could you link me to some style guides (even our own one) which suggests this construction is ungrammatical, just for my interest please? The Rambling Man (Keep wearing the mask...) 22:34, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
- This did not seem to bother Lovell, Duke regarded it as his worst experience comma splice
- However, he accidentally erased some of the computer's memory "however" implies a contradiction but there isn't one here
- There was one more change. Seven days before launch That entire paragraph seems off-topic for Lovell's biography as opposed to the article on Apollo 13.
- The restaurant was sold to son and executive chef James ("Jay") in 2006.[117] The restaurant was put on the market for sale in February 2014,[118] and it closed in April 2015, with the property auctioned the same month. All feels off-topic. Beyond the point where the Lovell family were involved, it should suffice to say that it was sold and later closed.
That's it. Not much to criticise. I've seen Apollo 13 a few times but hadn't realised that Lovell was the captain! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:19, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
- Now you'll have top watch it again. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:36, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
- Support. I'm happy with your responses, and I'll look out for Lovell next time I watch the film! HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:00, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
Image review—pass[edit]
No issues with licensing found. (t · c) buidhe 22:43, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
Source review - pass[edit]
Seeing as this one just needs a source review, I will contribute one. Hog Farm Talk 19:06, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
- - getting a 404 error, recommend archiving
- "As a college student, Gerlach had transferred from Wisconsin State Teachers College to the George Washington University in Washington, D.C., so she could be near him while he was at Annapolis" - how much of this does the public record link actually support? the other ref doesn't support all of it
- - "Evans, Ben. "'The Best All-Around Group': NASA's Astronauts of '62". AmericaSpace. Retrieved February 12, 2018." - Given that this is one of four refs just supporting the "New Nine" name for the group, I think this ref can go, as it appears to just be a middle-tier source in reliability.
More to come. Hog Farm Talk 19:17, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
- Link Honourable Company of Air Pilots where it is used as a source
- " "James A. Lovell". The Hall of Valor Project. Retrieved November 27, 2019." - is this valor.militarytimes.com source RS? I've never gotten a good answer for this question.
- "Hintz, Martin (2000). Wisconsin Portraits: 55 People who Made a Difference. Big Earth Publishing. ISBN 978-0-915024-80-3. OCLC 44508414." - very obscure publisher, what makes this high-quality RS?
- What makes " "Life Magazine cover: Jim Lovell". Oldlifemagazines.com. Archived from the original on November 29, 2011. Retrieved March 9, 2013." high-quality RS?
Other sources look okay for major formatting issues/reliability. Hog Farm Talk 20:17, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
- Also: you have to put "recusing" in the edit history if you want the bot to credit you as a reviewer. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:43, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
- Why are some books missing publisher locations? Gog the Mild (talk) 21:25, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
- Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Ian Rose (talk) 04:42, 26 December 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.