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Is it undue to mention RFK in the lede?[edit]

As of right now, we have no way of knowing if he would even qualify for the presidential debates. David O. Johnson (talk) 03:55, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I removed it based on today's news that Biden and Trump are accepting an invitation from CNN, outside of the CPD. RFK Jr. meeting the CPD criteria becomes moot if the CPD is not involved in the 2024 debates. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:11, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Biden declined CPD[edit]

There is a statement itself on the page of Biden declining to participate in the debates by the CPD, so shouldn’t the table be updated to reflect this? SDudley (talk) 18:44, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Has the CPD invited Trump and Biden to participate in their debates?[edit]

This page says invitations have been extended for Trump and Biden to appear in the CPD's 3 debates, but I have not found a statement from the Commission stating that they have done so: [1]. They typically do it a few days before the debates are scheduled to take place. Dingers5Days (talk) 20:54, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They have not. It looks like Biden and Trump were added as invited when whoever created the table put it in the article :[2]. I'll change it to TBD. I'm not even sure if we should even keep the section, since it's clear that the campaigns won't be attending the CPD presidential debates. David O. Johnson (talk) 21:07, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Question on date range in infobox[edit]

Why are the debate dates currently listed as a range in the infobox, rather than separate dates?

I.E. "June 27, 2024 – September 10, 2024."

Thanks for any explanation. David O. Johnson (talk) 07:15, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it is because of the expectation that a VP debate will be scheduled somewhere in the middle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:243:824:7577:54ec:39e0:b650:d545 (talk) 23:56, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That doesn't mean the infobox should say "June 27 – September 10, 2024." I've gone ahead and changed the date to "June 27 and September 10, 2024" and removed the running mate parameter as it is misleading. If a VP debate happens, then the infobox should contain a module for that debate. --Wow (talk) 02:05, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 27 May 2024[edit]

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. should have 201 potential electoral votes in the June 27th debate part of the article.

https://www.kennedy24.com/ballot-access 174.138.196.194 (talk) 22:19, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:29, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Kennedy24.com is not a reliable source. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:30, 27 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FEC Statement on CNN debate[edit]

Could someone put the FEC Statement on the CNN or paraphrase it into the article. It's relevant and might have ramifications.

https://www.kitv.com/news/cnn-debate-criteria-not-backed-by-fec-regulation/article_150180ec-2796-11ef-87b4-f343cf4897c3.html Buildershed (talk) 21:27, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

this might be important Buildershed (talk) 16:16, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What about it is important? What ramifications? – Muboshgu (talk) 17:31, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Muboshgu The FEC's ruling on the debate renders the debate illegal in how the candidates were selected Buildershed (talk) 19:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And? That obviously didn't stop CNN from holding the debate. Nobody is going to jail over this. Is there any impact? – Muboshgu (talk) 19:18, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't the party of Trump's VP choice unknown?[edit]

Trump can nominate a democrat, republican, independent, even a green party candidate to be his VP. They're not required to be a fellow Republican. 76.109.196.157 (talk) 20:54, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

He can. But only Republicans remain on his potential VP picks list.. Prcc27 (talk) 00:19, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Potential as confirmed by him or as speculated in the media? Maurnxiao (talk) 18:36, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 June 2024[edit]


  • What I think should be changed (format using {{textdiff}}):

Change "mixed" in the first sentence of the "Reception and aftermath" section to "negative"

  • Why it should be changed:

The section lists barely any examples of positive reception within the Democratic party of Biden's performance, and the reception seems overwhelmingly negative from the article's current content. The first positive examples come up only five paragraphs into the section, and I'm not sure whether e.g. Biden's own positive opinion on his debate performance should be counted as meaningful reception to begin with.

So this should either be adjusted to be in line with the actual examples listed, or there should be more prominent examples of positive reactions added and implemented much earlier within this section.

217.254.94.242 (talk) 07:08, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Partly done: the source didn't explicitly say negative, but I reworded it to say neither "mixed" nor "negative" and instead only focused on what CNN claimed the Democrats said. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 07:13, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a single synopsis of Biden's performance that has a neutral or mixed tone? To represent it as anything other than negative, based inba variety of sources would be wrong. The word "negative"should be there. Helpingtoclarify (talk) 22:10, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

Both candidates fail to address Palestinian suffering[edit]

Please add this paragraph to the end of the Format and debate section ...

Debate hosts Dana Bash and Jake Tapper, both of whom are Jewish, mentioned that thousands of Palestinians had been killed, and the onset of famine conditions in Gaza due to Israel’s persistent blockage of aid, the mass destruction of Gaza went unaddressed by the candidates. "Both candidates fail to address Palestinian suffering, toll of Israel’s war on Gaza as protesters rally near venue."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/6/28/trump-calls-biden-a-bad-palestinian-in-us-presidential-debate-jab

https://www.timesofisrael.com/who-are-jake-tapper-and-dana-bash-the-jewish-moderators-of-the-biden-trump-debate/ 98.46.117.204 (talk) 13:56, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:56, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not relevant. Lots of questions weren't squarely answered. This happens often in a political debate. Helpingtoclarify (talk) 22:06, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that it should be added. Neither Biden nor Trump made any mention of the tens of thousands of Palestinians killed, instead treating the question as a way to show how good allies of Israel they were. Though probably inconsequential for Trump, there has already been considerable criticism among more left–wing Biden voters for his actions toward the war in Gaza; Biden's failure to mention the situation the Palestinians find themselves in will not have been missed by the people these things matter the most to. Maurnxiao (talk) 22:08, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The "both of whom are Jewish" part seems pointless to me. Maurnxiao (talk) 22:09, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It helps me identify tendentious editing. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:21, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nevertheless, it shouldn't distract from the fact that the rest of their edit seems sensible. The war in Gaza is a notable issue in this campaign. Maurnxiao (talk) 22:34, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your comment putting it all on Biden and calling it "inconsequential for Trump" was also telling. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:54, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In what way? Do you think Trump's voting block will care much about his support for Israel? Perhaps a some people, but more generally? Biden's voting block is diverse – far-left, left wing, Muslim, gay, Jews, Zionists, anti-Zionists, capitalists, never-Trump Republicans, etc... to an extent that Trump's simply is not. Maurnxiao (talk) 23:12, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A question was dodged in a debate, this is not newsworthy.
Opinions on the voting blocks, etc are irrelevant here. Helpingtoclarify (talk) 01:45, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We are conditioned by the MSM to think that Palestinians are bad, terrorists, and Jews are good, the Chosen, defending themselves from the evil Palestinians. So when Palestinian is used as a slur, it passes without notice.
"Trump Used "Palestinian" as a Slur. Biden and Debate Moderators Didn't Say a Word."
https://theintercept.com/2024/06/28/presidential-debate-trump-palestinian/ 98.46.117.84 (talk) 03:39, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are speaking from your own personal biases, not presenting any RS to suggest this matters at all. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:04, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do we have here an example of someone wanting to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS? HiLo48 (talk) 04:30, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know, are you (plural) willing to read what I am writing? It feels absurd that anyone should think Trump's support for Israel is anywhere near as electorally damaging to his campaign as Biden's is for his, and if I should point this out this is "telling" and "righting great wrongs". What am I missing? Maurnxiao (talk) 10:06, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Has, for example, a notable Republican senator come out and said Trump's views on Israel could be his own Iraq? Maurnxiao (talk) 10:03, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
americans aren't beholden to obsessing over palestinians 24/7. Inflation and immigration are the main issues for voters. Not Palestinian demands. 2601:183:487E:9CA0:B937:6AB9:DCFA:1 (talk) 04:20, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Trump home state[edit]

Shouldn't it be New York and not Florida? Giraffeedits (talk) 16:02, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, Trump lives in Florida now. Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 16:28, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why[edit]

do we have “lies” in the main text clarified as “falsehoods” in the footnote? Lies and falsehoods aren’t the same. 86.31.178.164 (talk) 18:55, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because "falsehoods" includes "lies". Is there a specific instance you find problematic? BTW, with Trump, reliable sources and fact-checkers have long since stopped differentiating between the two. Yes, one cannot always know what's in a person's head and whether they are just being careless, are ignorant, or are willfully deceptive. With Trump, he doesn't care about the concept of truth. It doesn't exist in his mind, other than "If I say it, that makes it true." Fact-checkers decided that since he should know better, and yet he keeps repeating lies about common knowledge that have been thoroughly and publicly debunked, they just started calling his lies and falsehoods "lies". They were hesitant to do so in the beginning, but then they gave up. He can't say five sentences without there being some form of deception in them, no exaggeration. If someone should know better, then it's a lie. They cannot plead ignorance forever. See False or misleading statements by Donald Trump. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 02:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Huge duplication of content[edit]

There is a huge duplication of content (and extra content) here. Most of it should not be here.

What's going to happen to this content? We can't just continue to edit it and add to that content here. It doesn't belong here. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 02:27, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The information was actually moved to the June 27, 2024, US presidential debate article, which no longer exists. David O. Johnson (talk) 02:38, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You didn't notice my little note above "(the newest title)." -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 02:54, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Valjean: That's because there never should have been a "new title". There was never a need for a split, and I merged the "new" article back into here before because the creator, elijahpepe, failed to give a reason why there needs to be a separate article, as there is not currently any size concerns with this article. He recreated it without reason, which is why I removed the main article template as well, and in addition there is an AfD since elijahpepe insists on improperly and prematurely splitting this article (he has had article ownership concerns in the past, and this seems to be a case of it as well). We shouldn't have two articles of roughly the same length on the same topic being collaboratively created by different people. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 03:11, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well said. I applaud you. Lostfan333 (talk) 04:34, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the good info. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 05:57, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vice president party[edit]

Why does it say the vice president will be Republican in the box on the right side? Is that confirmed somewhere? A vice president doesn't need to be in the same party as the president. 213.225.15.74 (talk) 10:34, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All three candidates left (according to Trump) are Republican, so there's no point in saying it would be otherwise. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 10:37, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Everything else (including Trump) has (presumptive) written after it, then clearly it needs to be written after the party of the vice president too. 213.225.15.74 (talk) 10:55, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There's not a very good place to put "presumptive" for the VP, and I don't think there's any doubt the VP's going to be Republican; if Trump suddenly died or the RNC decided to nominate someone else, the VP would likely still be that person's running mate, so I don't think it's really necessary here. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 11:01, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Both moderators are Jewish and go to the same synagogue[edit]

I'm going to WP:BOLDly close this as it's clearly not worthy of being added and is debatably antisemitic. — Czello (music) 15:08, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Suggested edit ...

Both moderators are Jewish and go to the same synagogue.

Why is this not controversial, when a Palestinian slur during the debate is ignored by the moderators? 


76.156.161.247 (talk) 19:49, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The moderators didn't contest anything the candidates did or said this time around, simply letting the candidates speak for themselves. The article already mentions Trump's usage of "Palestinian" as a slur, but as the moderators were ignoring everything said as a rule, including blatant lies, there is no reason to blame the mods in particular, whether they go to different synagogues or not. Kaotao (talk) 06:36, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
seems antisemitic to imply this. all the american media is wellknown to avoid discussing propalestinian issues, why bring in jewishness? Bluethricecreamman (talk) 14:14, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You’re getting into WP:OR territory. And the religion of the moderators may be trivia; them going to the same synagogue is definitely trivia. Prcc27 (talk) 14:50, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/who-are-jake-tapper-and-dana-bash-the-jewish-moderators-of-the-biden-trump-debate

Trump used “Palestinian” as a slur. Biden and debate moderators didn’t say a word.

https://theintercept.com/2024/06/28/presidential-debate-trump-palestinian/

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.46.117.58 (talk • contribs)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

No Republican reception section?[edit]

There's a fairly lengthy section for how Democrats received the debate, but nothing for the Republicans. Can someone who isn't me make a skeleton for it? Kaotao (talk) 06:40, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That section isn't how Democrats in general received it as that's mostly covered in the "overview" section above; the "Democratic Party reception" section is for how people close to Biden and Democratic elected officials saw it, and the response by any Republican elected official (and Republican non-politicians) is covered in the overview section as well. Maybe that header should be changed to "Reception by Democratic Party officials"? We don't need a whole section for how the Republican officials saw it as that is mostly the same of "it was a disaster for Biden" and "he should leave the race", etc. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 07:11, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is way too much information there, with pundit after pundit after pundit included. This is WP:UNDUE and I have tagged the section as such. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:34, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It definitely could be trimmed a bit, but in what way is it undue weight? Virtually all media outlets and commentators who commented on the debate mentioned Biden's poor performance and the other things being said in that section, so to say in detail how widespread and universal the panic and thoughts of Biden's performance is in now way undue, the weight given to these views is perfectly WP:DUE here. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 16:00, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We are an encyclopedia. Not a newspaper. We need to take the long-term view. Admittedly we can't yet because of the WP:RECENTISM, but that's really the point: we need a summary here, not every person with an op-ed column's opinion. Comments on the pro-Biden (Newsom, Fetterman, Clyburn) and anti-Biden (Bedingfield, Axelrod, Carville, Yang) sides can be trimmed down if not removed entirely. And all of this about Biden and nothing about Trump's performance is out of balance as well; I know there's more ink spilled on Biden, but it's not like everyone forgot Trump was there. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:13, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that the sections need to be trimmed and condensed, because we certainly don't need a separate article for the June debate. Some1 (talk) 22:22, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I cut some. There is more to cut. All of these pundits are saying the same thing, we don't need to repeat each and every one of them. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:20, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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